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Vasco Grilo's avatar

Hi Dawn. Thanks for the post.

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I very much agree foundational research is the top priority. I also like the 3 concrete research directions you discuss, with the caveat that I would like field-building to focus much more on soil invertebrates.

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"Converting natural biomes to agriculture reduces soil fauna density by 2–8×, and the sheer number of organisms affected (billions per m²-year) overwhelms everything else."

How did you get to "billions per m²-year"? Did you mean billions per $ donated to the interventions saving human lives the most cost-effectively? I estimated GiveWell's top charities decrease the living time of soil animals by 539 M animal-years per $ (https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/WbmDhpqKcT8gjwpso/saving-human-lives-at-the-lowest-cost-increases-animal) (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r26jbZOSy6Cyojg8fPP-gGzk_pQzNKcIxemKNEsiVP0/edit?gid=631926438#gid=631926438&range=S1:S2), although I am very uncertain about whether they increase or decrease the living time of soil aninals (https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/WbmDhpqKcT8gjwpso/saving-human-lives-cheaply-is-the-most-cost-effective-way-of?commentId=yx6pS5mbjksiGp8fg). The vast majority of soil animals are nematodes (https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/ehrmin93mzseQMj82/total-number-of-neurons-and-welfare-of-animal-populations#Population1), and maybe these have a life expectancy at birth of around 20 days (https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2011/05/12/3214128.htm?site=tv&topic=latest). So I calculate GiveWell's top charities decrease the number of nematode lives by 9.84 billion per $ (= 539*10^6*365.25/20).

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"The current cost-effectiveness numbers, including the welfare range of 6.68 × 10⁻⁶ for nematodes that Grilo deferred to Gemini 2.5 to estimate, are placeholders waiting for empirical replacement."

I am very uncertain about the expected welfare range of soil nematodes. For expected welfare range proportional to "individual number of neurons"^"exponent", and "exponent" from 0 to 2, which covers the best guesses that I consider reasonable, I estimate the expected welfare range of nematodes ranges from 7.79*10^-18 to 1 (https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/ehrmin93mzseQMj82/total-number-of-neurons-and-welfare-of-animal-populations#Welfare_range1) (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1S7ivkkC8jKRcWU3qj7PPTiEi4YiZDVbnnW1zCljscgE/edit?gid=1742797903#gid=1742797903&range=B1:P1).

Less importantly, Gemini's guess that a modal soil nematode has 240 neurons has a negligible impact on my estimate for the expected welfare range of nematodes you mention above (https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/L9NZGB7xbxiwgndPk/welfare-biology-and-ai-the-quiz?commentId=wMx8KvXzPBdGMvc9M).

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"The second tier is large-scale, high-confidence, well-understood existing donation targets. Their welfare effect on soil fauna might be enormously larger than their direct effect on the intended beneficiaries (depending mostly on nematode welfare ranges), but it runs through the same well-studied land-use lever, so we can be unusually confident in the direction of the effect."

I am confident that a greater increase in agricultural land per $ leads to larger changes in the welfare of soil animals per $. However, I have very little idea about whether increasing agricultural land increases or decreases the welfare of soil animals. I am very uncertain about whether increasing agricultural land increases or decreases the number of soil nematodes (https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/WbmDhpqKcT8gjwpso/saving-human-lives-cheaply-is-the-most-cost-effective-way-of?commentId=yx6pS5mbjksiGp8fg), and I think effects on soil animals may be driven by effects on nematodes (https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/WbmDhpqKcT8gjwpso/saving-human-lives-cheaply-is-the-most-cost-effective-way-of#Increase_in_the_welfare_of_soil_nematodes_as_a_fraction_of_the_increase_in_the_welfare_of_soil_ants__termites__springtails__mites__and_nematodes).

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"Funding GiveWell’s top charities. Grilo (2025a) estimates that GiveWell’s top charities increase cropland by ~137 m²-year per dollar, translating to 1.11 kQALY per dollar when accounting for soil animals – 1.74× the past cost-effectiveness of the Shrimp Welfare Project’s Humane Slaughter Initiative (HSI)."

Here is my most recent analysis of the effects of GiveWell's top charities on soil animals (https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/WbmDhpqKcT8gjwpso/saving-human-lives-cheaply-is-the-most-cost-effective-way-of). For expected welfare range proportional to "individual number of neurons"^"exponent", and "exponent" from 0 to 2, which covers the best guesses that I consider reasonable, I estimate a cost-effectiveness of 0.0123 to 135 M QALY/$ assuming theat increasing agricultural land increases the welfare of soil animals (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r26jbZOSy6Cyojg8fPP-gGzk_pQzNKcIxemKNEsiVP0/edit?gid=1730931468#gid=1730931468&range=EB1:EG1). As I said above, I have very little idea about whether this is the case or not.

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"additional uncertainty Grilo flagged in his June 2025 update about whether HIPF’s chronic-disease-policy grants actually increase food consumption"

I estimated decreasing the consumption of sugar-sweetened beverages (SSBs) and sodium increases agricultural land 36.6 % and 96.2 % as much as it would if they decreased human mortality without any diet change (https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/AL8xgPFhL2oD3MJsh/reduction-in-life-expectancy-and-agricultural-land-due-to).

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"Grilo estimates these benefit soil animals 458× and 29× as much as they benefit chickens, though uncertainties over welfare ranges apply because most of them are nematodes."

I believe there is huge uncertainty in the welfare ranges of not only soil nematodes, but also in those of soil ants, termites, springtails, and mites (https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/ehrmin93mzseQMj82/total-number-of-neurons-and-welfare-of-animal-populations#Welfare_range1).

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"Biofuel subsidies as a natural experiment. [...] Second, for asymmetric antifrustrationists worried about instrumental harm, the RFS structurally passes the second filter above: its costs to existing beings are bounded (food prices, displaced soy expansion), and no new sentient beings are created in service of the antifrustrationist gain."

"The soft Pareto argument is the other reason to eat plant-based, and it doesn’t depend on the sign of soil-fauna welfare. Eating beef creates cattle whose entire frustrated lives enter the welfare ledger at full weight, in order to displace soil-fauna lives via the cattle-feed → soy-expansion pathway. That’s exactly the cow → soy structure the second filter above, the soft Pareto filter, discourages: bringing new sentient beings into existence as the means of producing antifrustrationist gains."

I think biofuel subsidies, and eating beef may increase the number of soil animals due to increasing the number of soil nematodes (https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/pEbiEmeu2agEHJgyu/a-database-of-near-term-interventions-for-wild-animals?commentId=r7bCtdh8MWp2J9jqi).

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"FoodAgricultural land (m²-yr/kg)Soil-animal-years displaced per kgBeef326~1.39 billionPork17.4~77 millionChicken12.2~54 millionDairy milk8.95~48 millionFish (farmed)8.41~37 millionPeas7.46~43 millionEggs6.27~28 millionTofu3.52~16 millionShrimp (farmed)2.97~11 millionSoy milk0.66~3 million"

This was supposed to be a table?

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